Let’s talk about modernity

Zhang Hong Yu Yu Xiaowei

This is a collection of my novels "Five Faces of Modernity" by domestic "post-70s" writers that will be released by Huacheng Publishing House. Here is a conversation with the famous critic Ms. Zhang Hong. In the several collections of novels I published before, none of the selected works are duplicates of each other. So is this book. When I say this, I actually want to make a small advertisement in advance. For those who have bought my previous novel collections, this one is also worth buying. I don’t know how well it’s written (of course you don’t know now either, haha). But at least the content of the articles is new and your money will not be wasted. Thank you.

Zhang: This collection consists of 11 short and medium-sized stories. They each present different appearances and qualities, including language and structure... embodying a unique view of people, life, and... The spiritual core and philosophical meaning of concern and thinking about human destiny. There's obviously some Western quality to this, right?

Yu: Yes. Although the word "Westernization" has always been sensitive and easy to be ridiculed in some of our fields (this is not normal), in literature, I do not deny that I like "Westernized" novels. Having said that, I think there is a lot to say. In a nutshell, "Westernized" novels are not simply imitations of the forms or concepts of Western novels, but the proposition of "the modern development of novels" in various countries around the world has long been placed in front of the times and coincides with it. As far as Chinese tradition is concerned, our novels actually originated in the Ming and Qing dynasties and were heavily influenced by scripts, legends and storytelling. This determines its auditory nature, a length nature, a one-dimensional nature, and a linear nature. Measuring properties of one-dimensionality. That is to say, I believe that, except for "A Dream of Red Mansions" and traditional Chinese poetry and prose, countless traditional Chinese novels are presented as linear development of plots and character movements, satisfying the audience's auditory "story" or "event" needs. needs, but rarely reaches the reading level of thinking, time pause and divergence, and the inner movement of the character's spirituality: including psychology, intuition, unconsciousness, life, feelings, and philosophy's self-paradox. In other words, from the perspective of Saussure’s semiotic theory, I feel that traditional Chinese novels only reach the “signifier” and less of the “signified”, which is far from enough. "Referring" is the correct development path of novels with modern significance. As modern people, this is the philosophical self-consistent law and premise for talking about our current novel writing. That is to go back to the beginning of the conversation - today, or in the 1980s, the "Westernization" tendency of many Chinese novelists, including myself, in their novels is by no means some mechanical imitation of Western novels, but our own Thinking about "human consciousness" and modernity in society has become clear and different paths lead to the same goal.

Zhang: Well, since modernity has been mentioned, let’s talk about modernity. Talk about your understanding of "modernity".

Yu: "Modernity" is such a big proposition that I really don't know where to start. Even just talking about the "modernity" of literature is almost extremely difficult. However, taking a step back and considering the theory of limited selection and elimination, for example, compared with the "avant-garde" naming of literature, I very much agree with what you call the "modernity" of literature. "Pavant-garde" or "avant-garde" literature has often caused debates at different levels in the intellectual and literary circles in recent years, interpretations from different angles, and understandings from different perspectives. However, I believe that if it is named after "modernity", it may It will clear up a lot of misunderstandings and vague definitions. Habermas pointed out: "People's modern concepts have changed with different beliefs. This belief is promoted by science, which believes in the infinite progress of knowledge and the infinite development of society and improvement." I think if we examine what modernity is, Peking University Professor Chen Xiaoming’s point of view is more pertinent: “The concept of time of infinite progress; concepts of freedom, democracy, equality, justice, etc. based on human values.” In addition, social modalities include globalization, consumerism, and authority. Disintegration and the reawakening of human life. In fact, I think integrating these value systems into literary expression is a relatively reliable criterion for testing whether literature is modern.

In other words, for writers, "modernity" is a concept in the humanities field that covers changes in the spiritual and cultural levels. Therefore, whether a novel is modern does not depend on how traditional or modern the subject matter is, but on what kind of themes and philosophy it wants to express.

Zhang: Just now you mentioned a sentence, "the reawakening of man"? Why do you say that?

Yu: I think "man's first awakening" was from the Enlightenment to the Second World War. It was the awakening of human life, self and personality. After World War II, especially since entering contemporary society, people began to “awaken” the deep and complex nature of their souls or spirits. This awakening not only includes cultural consciousness and respect for and pursuit of certain universal values, but also includes the confusion, negativity, and contradictions in such activities that are contrary to these seemingly unitary value pursuits. , including the paradoxes of life and existence. Because the latter is also a movement from a deeper spiritual realm, and may even be more valuable, I regard it as the second awakening of man. In literature, I think this is a big proposition.

Zhang: At first, you wanted to use one of your short stories included in this book, "Overflowing Desire," as the title of this book, right? This is a somewhat "violent" desire story related to a courier boy, and it seems to have nothing to do with love in essence. The ending completely spiraled out of control and turned into a sin. This work contains too many real elements of real society. I remember you once said something to the effect that fiction is higher than life and art is more real than life. How do you perfectly translate real-life events into works of art?

Yu: It is almost difficult for me to perfectly transform a real event into a work of art. The reason is that I don't want to do it. The more realistic events are suitable for writing novels, the more vigilant they should be from a certain perspective. Everyday experience is a disguise of familiarity that is equal to death because it is solid. The truth of art is an imagination and breakthrough of daily experience, a proofreading of reality, and the neglected part that fills in the gaps, so it is more real than reality. Replicating reality exactly is tantamount to murdering art. In fact, the novel "Overflowing Desire" is a subversion of reality from a philosophical and logical perspective. The events described in the first half of the plot in the novel may happen in life, but the sudden turn at the end is actually full of paradoxes and metaphors. Personally, I like to use the word "overflowing desire" as the title of the book. It comes from "Notes of Duke Wen of Song Dynasty", which means superfluous thoughts. I feel that my writing comes from the so-called "excess thoughts" in my heart, which reflect my views on reality and certain feelings. It's just that the publisher suggested changing the title to another one, probably thinking that this name would cause some kind of erotic ambiguity.

Zhang: "Garbage, Garbage" is not a single-line writing. I feel that it is a multi-linear work. On the surface, it is the so-called "love" of "I" for "Zhang Xiaohong". What are the others? Have I misread this work?

Yu: In "Garbage, Garbage" I wanted to express my boredom with reality through my nostalgia for the beautiful utopia of "Zhang Xiaohong". If there is some kind of misreading, that would be better. Harold Bloom's "Anxiety of Influence" is about elaborating on the meaning of "difference" caused by misreading. I couldn't ask for more of this.

Zhang: Was your novel full of experimentation from the beginning? Or modernity? After reading a lot of your works, I find that your creative styles, themes, and writing forms are varied and flexible, and do not appear unified in one time period. What is your view on literature? What are you exploring through your literary and artistic creations?

Yu: The style of the novels I created at the beginning is definitely different from the style I have today. In fact, as you said, the style of my creation may not be fixed in each period of time, or even the style of each article. They are all different, and the main ideas are not repeated. I have mentioned before the "One Painting Method" discussed by the ancient great painter Shi Tao, that is, the artwork should correspond to the different objects you see every day, have different thoughts, or make different paintings based on your different moods every day. In terms of expression, each painting has its own expression technique, method, or concept.

Perhaps this is the famous "content determines form" in later literary theory. What kind of content determines what kind of form, and the form must be effectively adjusted according to the difference in content. Will I keep writing novels with the same story and content for many years? I won't. Will you be able to express your thoughts that you have already expressed for many years? Won't. Will you paint the same mood and shape of bamboo year after year? Won't. Repeating yourself is the greatest death. This death is not death in art, but death in life. I think this is the greatest tragedy as an individual. Shi Tao firmly opposes "blindly imitating the past" and "being loyal to the object", but one thing is constant, which is "the original nature of the heart". If we can truly "paint according to our heart", then the artist will gain great freedom in his activities. I think that although the subject matter, techniques, language and structure of my novels vary, there is one thing that remains constant for me, which is what I said many years ago, "No matter what I write or what style I write, my observations on human nature and The writing strategies of real touch, poetic understanding of the world, and intellectual gestures remain unchanged. "If some people think that my works are relatively experimental and complex, it may not be due to my consciousness, but to my self-consciousness. It's spontaneous. Because that's my nature. What I explore through literature and artistic creation may not be art itself, but just discovering and activating a different me every day, a new me, proving that I am not dead yet.

Zhang: Let’s take a final question that seems a bit off-topic. Have you devoted yourself to oil painting creation in recent years? And it's quite successful. What is the relationship between literary creation and art creation for you?

Yu: I mentioned in the preface of this book why I suddenly started painting at the same time as I was writing, so I won’t go into details here. I feel that my art creation is first of all a salvage of my personal past survival experiences and philosophical dilemmas. Secondly, it complements and inspires my literary creation in concept and form. In the end, literature and art may be nothing to me, just a nameless but free need in my life.