It is said that Aisin is a "big gearbox". Why don't Honda and Nissan use it?

The simple question is that competitors' products don't have to be used.

The largest shareholder of Aisin Seiki is Toyota Motor. Toyota holds the shares of Aisin Seiki 22.2, and the second largest shareholder of Aisin is Toyota Industry, holding 7.68%. Look at the relationship between Toyota and Aisin. They are family behind closed doors. Although Honda and Nissan are also Japanese cars, they are also the biggest competitors. Even if Aisin sells them gearboxes, they dare not use them on a large scale.

The public is a warning.

The red and purple of a certain model has seriously affected the sales of Camry. Simple, don't provide it again! Just say that the production capacity is insufficient and we are trying to work overtime to catch up with the progress. After eating a boring loss, Volkswagen concentrated on developing a dual-clutch gearbox. However, Volkswagen's low-end models still buy Aisin's cheapest low-torque 6AT gearbox, which is on sale and can be purchased by any car company. So many domestic cars also use Aisin 6AT.

In addition to Volkswagen, GAC also encountered the problem of insufficient supply of Aisin gearbox.

Sales of GS8 increased steadily after listing, which threatened Highlander vaguely. So at the height of GS8' s popularity, Aisin came up with a trick to stop supplying due to insufficient production capacity. GS8 was suddenly strangled, the rhythm was disrupted, and the sales volume was curbed instantly. Partners have to stab each other, not to mention rivals like Honda and Nissan.

Honda won't buy Aisin gearbox even if it is killed, preferring to buy ZF's controversial 9AT gearbox.

This nine-speed gearbox had a bad reputation before, and its quality problems were exposed at the CCTV 3 15 party. Both Land Rover and jeep gearbox failures are caused by 9AT. However, except for a few cases of oil leakage, there has never been any other fault such as sudden power failure in Guandao. It can be seen that Honda has adjusted its skills. Honda not only plays well in the engine, but also in the gearbox. Honda parallel shaft gearbox is an example. Coupled with the CVT gearbox developed by ourselves, except for the high-torque high-end gearbox, almost all other models can be solved by CVT gearbox. Low cost, high transmission efficiency and good stability.

So is Nissan.

As early as 1970, Nissan, Ford and Mazda jointly established an automatic transmission company, which is one of the three major transmission suppliers: JATCO. Therefore, Nissan will always have CVT gearboxes, and continuously variable gearboxes are JATCO gearboxes. Domestic goods, be practical with your heart.

Seeing this problem, many people's first reaction is that Toyota is the major shareholder of Aisin Seiki, accounting for 22.2% of the shares. Toyota is a competitor of Honda and Nissan, so Honda and Nissan don't need Aisin gearbox. This is indeed a reason, and it is a more important reason, but it is not the core reason.

Why is it not the core reason? There is a simple reason. I have one myself. Why use someone else's?

Honda and Nissan are somewhat backward in gearbox, and will purchase some Aisin gearboxes more or less, but this is not the case. As far as the public is concerned, DSG is the best one, and it is not particularly powerful, so it loves 6AT/8AT from time to time. Why? I know how to do it myself, but I'm not very good at it and I don't want to be controlled by others. So I have to bite the bullet and try to use my own DSG, which can greatly reduce the cost. If it really doesn't work, I'll add some love letters AT AT, and the public is sometimes quite helpless.

Honda is different from Nissan. Their accomplishments in gearbox are far higher than those of the public, and they can even be compared with Aisin.

The three major automatic transmission companies in the world are ZF in Germany, Aisin in Japan and JATCO Jetco in Japan. ZF8AT is the most famous company of ZF, BMW and Land Rover, and many luxury cars are in use. Aisin's most popular product is 6AT, and now it is pushing 8AT, which has patent protection and high profit, but it is not much better than 6AT. Jetco focuses on CVT and has also made achievements in AT. Nissan TODA matches its 7AT, and its shift logic, stability, durability and economy are all good.

Nissan is a major shareholder of Jetco, and some people are well aware of this. In this case, is it necessary for Nissan to use Aisin gearbox?

Both Toyota and Nissan have a strong businessman atmosphere, good technology and better business. As far as business is concerned, Honda lags far behind them. To put it bluntly, Honda has a paranoid technical control, not only the engine is good, but also the gearbox is very powerful. But most people don't understand Honda's routine and never play by the rules. Aisin engages in planetary gear AT, Honda engages in parallel shaft AT, and I have a CRV 20 13, which matches the parallel shaft 5AT. There is nothing wrong with it except a slight setback in the second to third gears, and it is also very easy to use.

Let's start with Honda's CVT. Other people's CVT steel belts are basically provided by doctors and Schaeffler, but they are all made by themselves and are also very durable. Who heard that Honda's CVT is prone to problems? Or Honda is paranoid, always doing things that others can't think of, and doing it well.

Not only that, Honda also developed the world's first horizontal front drive 10AT, which is also the mass-produced transmission with the widest gear ratio in the world, with small volume, light weight and large torque. The disadvantages of parallel shaft are large volume and many gears, so this structure cannot be adopted. As for how Honda 10AT came out, I will talk about it in detail another day. It's funny anyway.

Honda is paranoid, especially likes technology, and often comes up with some seemingly non-mainstream technologies, but it can overwhelm mainstream technologies. Therefore, regardless of Honda's personality characteristics or technical strength, Honda will not use Aixin. Of course, Honda also has embarrassing times, such as the ZF9AT purchased from ZF, which is a bit of a mistake. It is estimated that I will be more cautious in the future. Help yourself to whatever you like.

There is another reason

Honda and Nissan mainly match CVT, which is low cost, fuel-efficient and smooth. Although it is not as good as AT's output texture, its silky output is also pleasing, especially in ordinary family cars, so it is safe and smooth, and now CVT is quite stable. The advantage of Aisin is actually AT, and its accomplishments in CVT are not outstanding. Aisin has no advantage over Honda CVT and Jieke. So from this perspective, Nissan and Honda do not have the possibility of purchasing Aisin gearbox.

Summary:

The first reason: Honda doesn't need Aisin gearbox because it has a mature, reliable and advanced gearbox, and CVT and AT have their own unique advantages. Nissan does not use Aisin gearbox because Jieke can provide excellent CVT gearbox.

The second reason: there is a competitive relationship between them. Honda and Nissan certainly don't want to be controlled by others and don't want to increase the extra cost. Then Toyota is unwilling to provide them in the deep heart, especially the technologically advanced gearbox. On the one hand, it involves the problem of technology leakage, on the other hand, there is the problem of matching and adjustment with the engine, which also involves technical indicators. In fact, there is no particularly in-depth communication and cooperation between them, mainly opposition.

The third reason: Aisin's advantage lies in AT, while Honda and Nissan mainly match CVT. From this point of view, it is not necessary at all.

The largest shareholder of Aisin Seiki is Toyota Motor. Toyota holds the shares of Aisin Seiki 22.2, and the second largest shareholder of Aisin is Toyota Industry, holding 7.68%. Look at the relationship between Toyota and Aisin. They are family behind closed doors. Although Honda and Nissan are also Japanese cars, they are also the biggest competitors. Even if Aisin sells them gearboxes, they dare not use them on a large scale.

The public is a warning.

The red and purple of a certain model has seriously affected the sales of Camry. Simple, don't provide it again! Just say that the production capacity is insufficient and we are trying to work overtime to catch up with the progress. After eating a boring loss, Volkswagen concentrated on developing a dual-clutch gearbox. However, Volkswagen's low-end models still buy Aisin's cheapest low-torque 6AT gearbox, which is on sale and can be purchased by any car company. So many domestic cars also use Aisin 6AT.

In addition to Volkswagen, GAC also encountered the problem of insufficient supply of Aisin gearbox.

Sales of GS8 increased steadily after listing, which threatened Highlander vaguely. So at the height of GS8' s popularity, Aisin came up with a trick to stop supplying due to insufficient production capacity. GS8 was suddenly strangled, the rhythm was disrupted, and the sales volume was curbed instantly. Partners have to stab each other, not to mention rivals like Honda and Nissan.

Honda won't buy Aisin gearbox even if it is killed, preferring to buy ZF's controversial 9AT gearbox.

This nine-speed gearbox had a bad reputation before, and its quality problems were exposed at the CCTV 3 15 party. Both Land Rover and jeep gearbox failures are caused by 9AT. However, except for a few cases of oil leakage, there has never been any other fault such as sudden power failure in Guandao. It can be seen that Honda has adjusted its skills. Honda not only plays well in the engine, but also in the gearbox. Honda parallel shaft gearbox is an example. Coupled with the CVT gearbox developed by ourselves, except for the high-torque high-end gearbox, almost all other models can be solved by CVT gearbox. Low cost, high transmission efficiency and good stability.

So is Nissan. As early as 1970, Nissan, Ford and Mazda jointly established an automatic transmission company, which is one of the three major transmission suppliers: JATCO. Therefore, Nissan will always have CVT gearboxes, and continuously variable gearboxes are JATCO gearboxes. Domestic goods, be practical with your heart.

It is said that Aisin is a "big gearbox". Why don't Honda and Nissan use it? There is a simple reason. I have a gearbox at home. Why am I in such a hurry to send money to my competitors? Honda and Nissan executives will not buy Aisin's gearbox on a large scale unless they are kicked in the head by a donkey.

The relationship between Aisin and Toyota

Aisin has strong technical strength in the field of gearbox, but Aisin and Toyota are actually a family. Aisin Japan was founded in 1969, which was jointly funded by Aisin and Borg Warner. Among them, Toyota Group owns 22.2% of Aisin Seiki. Because of this, almost all Toyota models are using Aisin's gearbox. Under such circumstances, if Honda and Nissan use Aisin gearbox, it is basically equivalent to sending money to competitor Toyota.

"Bottleneck" Strategy of Aisin

Because of the relationship between Toyota and Aisin, Aisin often plays tricks when supplying gearboxes to Toyota's competitors. People in China are familiar with Guangzhou Automobile Chuanqi's GS8, which finally won the top seven in the 20 17 SUV sales list. However, due to the threat of Highlander's status, it was forced to reduce the supply of gearboxes, and the output of Chuanqi GS8 dropped to 7,000 units/month. This situation also happened to Volkswagen, which is also an important reason for Volkswagen to develop DSG gearboxes.

Honda and Nissan gearboxes

If you don't have the research and development capacity of gearbox like GAC Chuanqi, forget it. If you can produce gearboxes yourself, why should you increase profits for your competitors?

Although the research and development of gearbox is difficult, it is not a problem for Honda, a "technical control" who loves research, innovation and chasing dreams. Honda originally used Jetco's CVT gearbox, but after discovering that Jetco's gearbox could not meet the requirements of independent models for failure rate and speed increase, Honda began to develop its own gearbox. Honda independently developed 6AT, 8DCT and CVT gearboxes with hydraulic torque converters, and Honda developed the world's first horizontal 10AT gearbox. In fact, Honda's research and development strength in gearbox is very strong, and it does not need to rely on other suppliers at all.

Almost all of Nissan's gearboxes come from Jetco, which is also Nissan's holding company. So for Nissan, leaving its own gearbox and using Aisin's gearbox is a brain tonic. As one of the three largest gearbox manufacturers in the world, Jieke supplies brands such as Nissan, Mitsubishi Automobile Industry, Suzuki, Fuji Heavy Industries, Renault and Chrysler with an annual supply of more than 5 million units.

There is no doubt that Aisin is the big gearbox. Volkswagen, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Peugeot, Mazda and some of our own brands will also use Aisin gearbox. Aisin is a sub-brand of Toyota, and almost all Toyota and Lexus use Aisin gearboxes. Aisin gearbox has obvious advantages, stable and reliable quality, ingenious shifting logic, good fuel economy and low price. Since Aisin gearbox is so good, why don't Nissan and Honda use these two Japanese cars?

There must be a reason not to use it. There is a simple reason. Nissan and Honda's gearboxes are good enough, so why use Toyota? It's probably embarrassing to be strangled. Volkswagen made a fool of itself and also taught other car companies a lesson. Don't depend on anyone, there is no reliable partner.

The world's three major gearbox factories, in addition to Aisin, are ZF and Czech Republic. The relationship between the Czech Republic and Nissan is like Aisin and Toyota. Czechoslovakia is one of the three largest gearbox factories in the world, and its strength is beyond doubt. It is a sub-brand of Nissan, and naturally Nissan gives priority to Czechoslovakia gearbox. As the saying goes, "rich water doesn't flow from outsiders." What's so hard to understand? Czech Republic has made great achievements in the field of CVT gearbox. At present, all automatic cars in Nissan are equipped with CVT gearboxes. Simple structure, mature technology, smooth power output and very high comfort.

The world super gearbox factory has nothing to do with Honda. Why doesn't Honda use Aisin gearbox? In fact, Honda not only does not use Aisin gearbox, but also does not use Czech special gearbox. Only 9AT gearboxes use ZF. Honda is a famous master of black technology, technology house and gearbox. In fact, Honda is an all-round car company, and motorcycles, automotive pediatrics and airplanes have long been commercialized. Honda's parallel shaft gearbox just bypassed the patent of Toyota AT gearbox, just like Honda Hybrid bypassed Toyota Hybrid, and achieved the same result. There is nothing that Honda can't do, it's just a question of whether it wants to. In addition to the parallel shaft gearbox, Honda's CVT gearbox is also reliable and durable. Don't think that Honda can't make at products. The 10AT gearbox equipped with the North American Accord can't do much.

In fact, building a car is the same as making money, and no one has it like himself. Both Nissan and Honda have their own excellent gearboxes. Why use someone else's gearbox? That's all.

Aisin's gearbox is awesome, but the more awesome Honda Nissan is, the less it wants to use it. Why? Because Aisin is too close to Toyota, and Toyota, Honda and Nissan are their biggest competitors.

Let's take a look at the top three shareholders of Aisin Seiki, namely Toyota Motor, Toyota Industrial and Denso. Needless to say, the first two companies are well-known, and the latter one is not called Toyota, but it is also controlled by Toyota, so Aisin is actually a Toyota enterprise.

Although Toyota, Honda and Nissan are the top three Japanese companies, their products are in direct competition in the three major markets of Japanese automobile brands, and they are more intense than other manufacturers in North America, China and Japan.

Competition is on the one hand, if you can't do it yourself, you have to use your competitors' things. Nissan used Aisin's gearbox, and Honda also used Gatco's gearbox. Like Apple, you don't have a 5G chip now. If Huawei gives it, it will definitely accept it. Now Honda and Nissan have strong gearbox technology, and it is normal for them not to use Aisin's gearbox.

Aisin is a big gearbox, but it doesn't matter whether Honda Nissan uses it or not. Japan's three giants have little cooperation and are competitive. It is not a rational choice to put such an important part of the gearbox in the hands of competitors. Once the products compete, it is easy for the other party to stumble on some core components, such as insufficient supply and the car can't find a replacement transmission for the time being, so everyone uses Aisin, which is equivalent to controlling all car companies!

Therefore, all large car companies with sufficient financial resources to develop automatic gearboxes will find ways to get rid of Aisin! As for those with small scale and insufficient financial resources, they can only buy from major gearbox suppliers, not because they want to do it, but because they can't do it themselves and can only buy it outside; So now, except Toyota's Aisin transmission, all other brands and models will develop their own automatic transmissions. For example, Volkswagen used to love the letter, but now it has gradually replaced the AT of the letter with a large number of dual clutches; Because Volkswagen and Toyota are competitors, the cost of using Aisin will always be much higher than that of Toyota, and the competitiveness of the car will be poor (just saying that selling the same gearbox to Volkswagen is definitely more expensive than selling Toyota)!

Nissan and Honda don't need Aisin's transmission.

Aisin, Jieke, ZF, Mobius and Getrak are the top five gearbox suppliers in the world. In addition to these gearbox suppliers, there are Honda and Mercedes-Benz that have the ability to build at transmissions (I would like to add these two friends at present); Among them, Aisin Seiko is controlled by Toyota, so it is closely related to Toyota, while Jetco is controlled by Nissan, so it is closely related to Nissan; Both ZF and BMW are controlled by the Quant family, so they are closely related. This is the main pattern of gearbox system at present; Therefore, Nissan will only use Jetco and will not go far away to find love letters; Honda has the ability to develop gearboxes, so it won't go to Aisin. There is indeed a demand, I would rather cooperate with ZF than touch Aixin!

Japan's Toyota, Honda and Nissan have almost no cooperation, which is the reason caused by competition; Nissan uses Jetco, needless to say; Most of Honda's transmissions are independently developed, such as CVT, such as parallel axis At, such as ten-speed At. In this regard, Honda is a model of self-improvement, that is, dare to create. In the past, Honda used a Jetco CVT gearbox with a short cycle. Later, when my own CVT was developed, it was not needed. Why does it use Aisin's transmission? Honda will also use foreign transmissions now, such as ZF's nine-speed At, but it will definitely not use Aisin machines, so there may be some face problems. Although all fields and industries are Japanese, they are also enemies!

Aisin transmission is not the real boss.

Aisin's automatic transmission has a resounding name, so many friends think Aisin's automatic transmission has the highest level. In fact, Aisin's machine wins in high cost performance, large installed capacity, excellent quality and decent performance (friends who buy a car at this price may not care about performance at all), so Aisin gearbox represents the strongest economic gearbox and is the strongest and best-selling boss in this field; Really competitive performance, ZF is the big brother! Sometimes, we often like to judge the quality and determine the technical level according to the sales volume. There is a gearbox customization company in Britain called Ricardo, which is not as large as Aisin, but the technical strength is enough to design gearboxes specifically for Bugatti, so these are the real bosses, just hermits!

In short, Nissan and Honda have enough reasons not to use Aisin's transmission. Nissan holds Jieke and has enough CVT available. Although Jetco stopped At research and development, Nissan also bet on CVT. In the past, there were seven-speed AT to make do. Honda naturally won't use Aisin. Its CVT and 10-speed At are very mature. There is no need to use Aisin, even if it is imported from ZF. The gearbox is one of the cores of a car, so large OEMs either independently develop or control the gearbox company. This is how big car companies play. Small car companies can rely on external mining, but for large car companies, it is very dangerous. Is it uncomfortable to have your heart in someone else's hands?

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Let me talk about the common faults of Aisin 6AT!

The main problem is the valve body. Generally around 60,000-80,000 kilometers. The valve body is excessively washed by transmission oil, which will cause wear, so there will be a downshift. Generally, the downshift from the fifth gear to the fourth gear is severe, and there will be shift impact, especially when the neutral gear is changed to the forward gear, the vehicle will rush forward.

Changing transmission oil will relieve it, but it can't cure it. The weather is cold, and it will be better after the hot car.

Of course, it is much better than Ford GM's 6AT.

In addition, Aisin's 8AT is not so good, otherwise it will not be taken away by ZF's 8AT, which came out earlier than ZF.

At present, the three recognized gearbox brands in the world are ZF in Germany, Aisin in Japan and Jieke in Japan. In addition, Mobius, Ellison, Borgwarner and Gertrak are all world-renowned gearbox manufacturers.

Aisin Seiki is a global top 500 enterprise and a world-renowned supplier of auto parts, involving hardware, electromechanical, mechanical equipment and other products. Toyota has shares in the company, so Toyota has its own gearbox, so there is no need to use others'. ZF 8AT is world-famous and is the largest supplier of auto parts in Europe, and 8AT is also mostly used in high-end models. Although the latter 9AT has been criticized, its technology is still ahead of the world. Jetco is a Nissan holding company, focusing on CVT market. 70% CVT gearboxes in the world are provided or jointly produced by Jieke. After learning about Aisin AW and Jetco, you should be able to see something. Yes, since everyone is a competitor, there must be technical blockade and patent barriers. And if you want my goods, you can either buy them at a high price or pay the patent fee, or you can do exactly as I ask. In short, you completely lose your autonomy, make your own car unprofitable, and finally let others make money, and no one wants to. This is the case with Toyota and Nissan. They support their holding company, not only can do whatever they want, but also can control the cost. Of course, Aisin also has CVT, and Jieke also has 4AT and 6AT, but its weaknesses are easily overlooked in the face of advantages. Aisin AW does not refuse to sell goods, nor does it deliberately exclude Honda and Nissan. Citroen, Mazda, Ford, Mitsubishi, Suzuki and many other brands use Aisin gearbox. Nissan doesn't need it, because they have gay friends Jetco. With Jetco's accomplishments in CVT technology, it can basically cope with more than 90% of Nissan's models. The reason why we don't use "Honda Technology Research" is that Honda has always been unwilling to bow to others in front of technology (that is, to control costs). The "technical house" is nothing more than that, and there is no worry about food and clothing. After all, Honda can cope with the family car level, and there is no need to bow to the two bosses. In short, Toyota, Honda and Nissan basically use their own gearboxes, and cost control is the most important. But don't ignore that your products are more compatible with your own products. Considering the balanced adjustment of the powertrain and the excellent performance of the whole vehicle, it is not necessarily more convenient to use other people's products than to use your own.

This is a fool's question. Why not? Aisin doesn't buy Honda and Nissan because it is a Toyota holding company. If you were a Toyota executive, would you sell it to a competitor? Look how miserable Honda and Nissan are today. Nissan Teana has a 2.0T engine, but it has no ideal gearbox and can only be equipped with CVT. Honda Crown Road 1.5T engine still uses CVT. Such a heavy vehicle CVT is a rogue. The 2.0T can only use the 9AT gearbox, but this 9AT has already exposed serious problems on other models, and it is only sold to Honda 9AT, not a mature and reliable 8AT. Is to make you think of Honda as a mouse. They can easily collect data and correct it in the future. Honda is a rogue and can only accept it, so Toyota can't sell Aisin AT gearbox to Honda and Nissan, just as Huawei can't sell Kirin chip to Xiaomi.