Analyze some characteristics of He Jiaying's meticulous figure painting composition, please cite several works to illustrate, and try to be as detailed as possible.

Interviewer: Ma Wei, Zhenyi.com.

Chen Danqing's encouragement: Stick to it and you will surely achieve great success!

Wei: This exhibition of Shanghai Art Museum is the most concentrated one of your solo exhibitions in recent years. What works are included?

H: This exhibition is a relatively large-scale exhibition in my life. Some of the works are meticulous paintings created in the 1980s and 1990s, and there are also some later freehand brushwork. Different from previous solo exhibitions, this exhibition has added sketches, including creative papers, which can more comprehensively reflect the formation process of my meticulous painting, and some are sketches of some ordinary paintings. I sent 74 works, many of which were borrowed from collectors. These collectors support me and thank them very much.

Wei: Do you keep everything except the borrowed ones?

Hu: Most of the meticulous paintings are still in my own hands and have not been sold. These works were made when I was young and lonely, and they were not taken seriously. I don't want to sell them

Wei: When was that?

Hu: In the early 1980s, my works were not taken seriously. "Nineteen Autumn and the Mountain" didn't win the prize in the Youth Art Exhibition. After the exhibition, Art magazine published Nineteen Autumn, which was also published in the United States. Chen Danqing saw this and wrote me a letter of praise. The letter was full of enthusiasm and encouraged me to "persevere and be a great person"! This is a great encouragement to me and makes me cheer up at once. So this letter from him has played a great role in my life.

W: What was the creative state at that time?

Mr. Hu: I just concentrate on painting. Unlike today, there are too many things to do, and people have to attend exhibitions, seminars and so on. People are bored and have no time to draw. So that stage, from my twenties to my forties, was my golden age. Although it is in a neglected, lonely and unrecognized environment, it is precisely at this time that I test people the most. After the "85" ideological trend, many artists are pursuing new trends, but I am firmly painting in my own direction, many people do not understand, and the creative environment is difficult. I remember one time, a group of Americans came to the school to see my paintings. The school couldn't arrange a place, so I opened it on the wall of the college and showed it to others. It's a pity to think about it. Although those people were surprised after reading the works, this kind of expression is disrespectful to art.

Who has the greatest influence on your artistic creation?

Hu: My teacher Bai Gengyan is a landscape painter, and his works are very atmospheric. We often create together. I can give my opinion on his paintings. I drew him to point out problems for me and learned a lot from my teacher. He painted landscapes, I painted meticulous figures, and sometimes I painted small freehand figures, but he didn't directly teach me how to draw meticulous paintings, but taught me the truth, including the way to be a man. He often tells me that "it's not rabbits chasing deer", which means that when we were hunting, we caught a deer, and when we were chasing a deer, a rabbit suddenly appeared, and we couldn't be attracted by him. In other words, we should pursue the general direction and not be disturbed by trivial matters. I didn't go to graduate school, but painting with this teacher is equivalent to taking a postgraduate course and learning a lot of knowledge and applying it to painting.

My image is delicate if I speak well, and weak if I don't speak well, so I tend to fall into a strange circle of sticking to details and covering everything, but under the influence of this teacher, I know how to adjust my direction. When he paints, he writes affirmatively, decisively and openly, so I think meticulous brushwork should also be aboveboard and generous. In addition, my previous skills were all based on Huang Zhou's sketches, which also made my works more generous. Instead of continuing the delicate style of Ming and Qing dynasties, it has its own way.

Wei: That's what everyone says, "How's the family"?

Ho: Hehe, actually, my things can't be said to have any strong style or characteristics. Painting is my hobby, and I don't think I have finished this road yet.

I'm crazy about impressionist works.

W: You have a deep research on the works of Western Impressionism. What kind of inspiration does it give you? How did you apply it to your work?

Mr. Hu: It has great influence and is an excellent part of world culture. Impressionism made European painting reach its peak, which is equivalent to the literati painting in Yuan Dynasty reaching the peak of Chinese painting. At our highest stage, there are many things on the spiritual level, while impressionism is more emotional-sincere, true and emotional. It is not an idea, but a concern, understanding and expression of nature-indulgence, love and beautiful expression of life, which also shows their artistic talent.

The creative means in impressionism actually have elements of Chinese painting. The painting language of Chinese painting pays attention to the presentation language, and it should have the means of presentation, rather than simply depicting the object. Chinese painting is a heartfelt understanding of nature, and it also needs to create a language form, such as various brushstrokes and various forms of lines, which are particularly regular and can be summarized. The same is true of Impressionism. It seems that we all think impressionism is objective, but it is not. Impressionism is a highly generalized and refined expression language under such objective and highly reflective conditions. It pays attention to the rhythm and arrangement of brush strokes and looks rich in color. In fact, it is the rhythm produced by the repeated use of several colors, much like music, and simple notes constitute the main theme.

When I went to France, I just caught up with the French Impression Exhibition and waited in line for two hours before I entered, which shows how much it is loved by our people-especially such a knowledgeable group. We often ask: Who is art for? Art is for the people and the public. Today, when we talk about the masses, we refer more to the intellectual class. The harmonious and beautiful world also truly reflects the inner world of the painter himself. Impressionists' love and exploration of beauty completely broke the classical way of presentation.

W: What do you think of classical oil paintings?

He: I can't stand classical oil paintings for a long time, especially before the Middle Ages. Like the paintings of our four heavenly kings, there are not so many real life feelings. They are all stories, the characters are round and thin, and the tone is heavy, so we can't be liberated spiritually. But if you look at impressionism, the spirit is liberated at once, which is more suitable for people's temperament. It brings sunshine and people's love. So, I'm crazy about Impressionism. It draws not stories, but scenes and beautiful feelings. If we continue to draw freehand brushwork instead of meticulous painting, we may absorb many impressionists, but the language gap between meticulous painting and impressionism is very big. Impressionism is the juxtaposition of pigments and the repeated changes of colors, but meticulous painting, especially traditional meticulous painting, is simple, and colors cannot change so much. If it changes, it will not be China's painting, so I will absorb more things from its essence.

For example, if I discover beautiful things and shapes with my own eyes, I can learn a lot, including the subtle relationships. My oil painting teacher told me about Manet's "The Barmaid" and said, "Look at its chin, it's just a little borderline, but the volume of the chin is all out." However, when we go to school, we still follow Russian sketches. When the light shines, there must be a shadow under our chin, which separates our heads from our necks. Later, when I was painting "Sour Grapes", I drew the lines of my chin very dry and empty to make it special. These are all from impressionism.

W: Does Japanese modern figure painting have an influence on you?

Mr. Hu: When we talk about Japanese painting, we talk more about Japanese beauty painting after Ukiyo-e painting. Of course, Ukiyo-e painting had an influence on impressionism and the formation of beauty painting later. The formation of Japanese painting is more about accepting some things from the west and paying more attention to the feelings of life than some empty expressions. It has discovery, creation, artistic conception and beauty. Comparing our meticulous brushwork in the Republic of China, we will find that ours is dead and theirs is alive. This kind of thing just provides us with a reference direction. When painting, it is inevitable that someone will say that you are like a Japanese painting and also a meticulous painting. In China, it is also a means of meticulous painting, but because you pay attention to the feelings of life, you have formed your own artistic style. If you also pay attention to the feelings of life, you will naturally look alike, but there will always be differences. For example, Japanese painting has a comprehensive background, including ukiyo-e painting and genre painting, which is not highly refined.

When I wrote My Aunt Mizhi, I was inspired by Japanese paintings. That picture is a car. After cutting off a piece, the composition is more stable and complete. The inspiration of this composition enabled my material to be expressed. The woman in Aunt Mizhi is perfect, but sitting there is unstable and can't be put down, so cut off a piece and it will be stable. At first, I wanted to draw the characteristics of Mizhi, such as caves and pillars in front of caves, but I gave too much, so I must draw them like Japanese paintings. So I simply deleted all these and replaced them with long pictures. Simple khaki tones make people feel like a scene on the Loess Plateau. Chinese painting is like this, leaving three points is more beautiful.

W: You are committed to "balancing the integration of China and the West". In meticulous painting, you apply western realism and blend well; However, freehand brushwork is impossible to be thorough in practical value. How do you combine the two in freehand brushwork?

Ho: Freehand brushwork and realism are not my original works. Xu Beihong, Huang Zhou and others and their students have made great achievements in this respect. Freehand brushwork can also be very realistic, like Mr. Jiang's works. Traditionally, we have had very realistic works in China, especially portraits, such as those of the Qing Dynasty and Yongle Palace, which are all realistic. I'm not creative, I just know them better. People want to express the truth of the object. Actually, realism is a desire of human psychological existence, so I didn't separate China from the West. Moreover, in today's comparison between Chinese painting and the west, there are still many things we need to learn. Western painting contains more profound thoughts and feelings. In this respect, western figure painting provides us with a good reference. I hold something more realistic from meticulous brushwork, and hold it as much as possible without jumping out of the Chinese painting system.

Innocence and sadness are the most touching.

Wei: I've seen an interview with you before. You said "purity and sadness are the most touching", so your works also have this temperament. Now people's mental outlook and aesthetics change with the improvement of material life. Perhaps modern people advocate "healthy beauty", "intellectual beauty" and even "neutral beauty". Will your creation change?

He: Modern people also have people at different levels, and artistic expression forms have entered the contemporary era. Looking at the world and the ugliness of society, people are ugly, and the images drawn naturally are ugly. Because in order to express this, we naturally use these images to express the world. We are digging for good things, pursuing the good things in our hearts, and naturally looking at the ideal things in our hearts. Even if what I see in life is not so beautiful, I will edit it again. For example, figure painting, the photos or materials taken by others may not be so pure, but in the end you can still create your ideal pure realm.

Wei: Many female images in your meticulous works are elegant, simple and slightly sad. Are you deliberately looking for these models, or are you shaping this temperament in your works according to your requirements?

Ho: On the one hand, it is the accumulation of information. For example, this person likes painting very much. He can take photos, sketch and collect, and there is a fate of meeting by chance. In fact, few models I draw are pure and beautiful. If they are too beautiful, they have no personality. What I met was not beautiful enough, but it was beautiful. Beauty needs to be discovered and felt. For example, when drawing "Lonely Goose", I need a model to arrange for students to draw in class. I have no choice but to draw her. The skeleton structure of this model is very good and meets the minimum requirements. She is a laid-off woman worker, and her temperament does not show the wisdom of contemporary people. When I painted her, she was very boring, very boring. It is this dull, quiet and expressionless state that is common among many girls, which is exactly what I want, so I caught her. Therefore, borrowing her appearance to express my needs reflects my pursuit.

At that time, this artistic conception was already shown in the sketch, and this sketch is also on display this time. Therefore, there is an element of artist's subjective creation.

Wei: Are there any painting objects in your works that you haven't sketched?

Ho: For example, I basically made up the pictures of Four Beautiful Women, and it is inevitable that there will be some conceptualization. I want to have the taste of traditional beauty, but I don't want him to feel like a modern man. I want to have personality. This is the ideal state of people, that is, your ideal imaginary image is limited, so the fabricated things have their defects.

I am not a person with a good memory. I can't draw comic books because I can't remember them. It is this defect that saved me, because my creation can only rely on sketching. Sketch also makes up for the conceptualization of Chinese painting. In the process of sketching, I can observe it carefully. In ancient times, there was a saying that "the spirit is in my heart, and the hand says its eyes". Basically, I saw it and felt it, so I can express it. Sketching makes up for my shortcomings and sublimates my strengths. I can really go deeper and see more clearly than others in sketching. This is also the characteristic of my works, which makes my meticulous painting draw lessons from the expression techniques of western painting, return to the quality of meticulous painting itself, express it in depth, reflect the inner spiritual world from the external form and language, and actually accommodate my aesthetic ideal.

Wei: Is Soul a Mawei Po your only historical work? When was this work created?

Mr. Hu: No, I have other historical works. This painting was created in 1989.

W: Some of your works at that time were based on life and had the flavor of the times. How did you create this historical theme?

Mr. Hu: That's a painting for the 7th Youth Art Exhibition. What do you think of painting? By chance, I met Gao Yun of Nanjing (now director of Jiangsu Provincial Department of Culture). His comic books are particularly good. Many of his works won gold medals in national art exhibitions. The lines of his works are beautifully organized, stretching the atmosphere. I am very positive about the description of the big scenes, especially the majestic army. I admire him in my heart. So at that time, I thought that if we cooperated in the national art exhibition, there might be good works. My creation needs sketching, and I am not suitable for painting historical themes, so I have no real feelings. He can hold up the big scene, and I can paint the characters more deeply. Later, we hit it off and chose a theme of combining rigidity with softness, which is rough, delicate and sad. Finally, I chose Yang Guifei, the army and the beautiful woman, which was particularly interesting. He decided on the basic composition. He drew a square, cut it, and it came out in a moment. Everyone in me has to find a model to match and an image, including Yang Guifei, a student, and Tang, an oil painting teacher in our school. The whole picture draws lessons from an effect of Li Chongrun's tomb mural, painting all outlaw heroes in red, with red as the main color, and the characters are relatively low-key. Gao Yun advocates Chinese painting, and the space should be pushed out layer by layer. I have a heavy concept of western painting. I may win more with less, but I didn't draw so many people, but I have more feelings than these people. For example, "Surrender" painted by Velazquez, in fact, there are only a few people in front, but there are red tassels at the back, and you feel a sea of people. Later, I followed him in painting, but in the end I still felt dissatisfied. I finished this painting by myself.

The study of sketch is necessary for artistic creation.

Wei: The teaching of Chinese painting has always been based on the combination of copying ancient paintings and sketching. You have taught in the Academy of Fine Arts for many years. What have you learned from art education?

Mr. Hu: We basically followed the educational system of Xu Beihong in the Academy of Fine Arts. At present, many people think that this is an educational way of western painting, which is not suitable for the expression of Chinese painting. I don't think so. Under today's circumstances, it is impossible for us to return to the state of the ancients, because all our life cultures are the fusion of Chinese and Western cultures. Therefore, on the road of learning painting, we go hand in hand, not only to inherit the fine traditions, but also to learn from western means. For example, the western sketching method has its advantages. Having said that, it is inevitable to talk about sketch, which is the basis of painting. Without solving the problems and misunderstandings in sketch, it is difficult for us to integrate Chinese and western painting. When it comes to sketching, people immediately think of black and white paintings with light and shade. This is a sketch, completely western. In this concept, my classmates and I will be clear about this concept. First of all, what is sketch? Sketch is the basic means of painting in the sense of black and white, which mainly solves the observation method. In the method of sketching in western painting, I teach you how to observe as a whole, and many problems are only known through overall observation. The second is to solve the problems of black, white, gray, primary and secondary, the relationship between reality and reality, and the perspective of structure and modeling, so sketch basically contains the most basic and essential factors in painting. However, if we stay in the concept of light and shade to understand sketch, you can't communicate with Chinese painting. The essence of sketch is not light and shade. Light and shade sketch is a way for us to know things, and it is also an objective reality that our eyes can observe, which is very beneficial for us to know the object objectively and sincerely, including the knowledge of reality and falsehood.

Is the expression of our lines a sketch? For example, the manuscripts of murals painted by our ancients are still sketches. So sketch is the basic means of painting, which is manifested in two aspects. The first is a basis for learning painting, and the second is a basis for creation. For example, the materials we draw and the paper we draw are all sketches. Don't be so narrow-minded When it comes to sketching, you think of light and shade. Sketch is also a category of sketch, which is faster. If this is the case, there are sketches in China and sketches in ancient China, so don't distinguish between China and the West, but study what problems sketch should solve. Painting is to solve the problems of space, rhythm and feeling, and these problems can be solved very effectively in learning sketch. Therefore, sketch learning in the Academy of Fine Arts is very important.

W: When we first learn art, we will have some plaster painting training. Is it necessary? Wouldn't it be better to sketch directly from real people?

Mr. Hu: I don't deny or reject the training of plaster model. Some people say that painting plaster casts is lifeless, and what they draw is rigid. That's not true. For beginners, real portraits are colored, such as the change of skin depth, so it is difficult to judge the subtle differences of colors. It takes some experience to judge, but the gypsum image is pure white and has no color difference, so you can feel the virtual and real state, black and white state and level reflected by it in a space and a light, and you can understand what the expression of this spatial structure is from a more essential point of view. It is from the sketch that I feel the subtle changes of the object, and I can make meticulous painting so exquisite.

Ye once said that Chinese painting does not need to learn sketch, but only line drawing. I disagree with this sentence. Didn't you just say that the definition of sketch is a basic means? What is line drawing? If you say that the first draft of your line drawing is expressed by lines and drawn by pencil or charcoal drawing, I admit that it is still a sketch, because it is a basic means. If it is drawn with brush strokes, it is finally called line drawing, which is a stereotype, not a foundation. Teacher Ye said that there is no need to draw sketches, but to draw line drawings. He still regards sketch as the endorsement of light and shadow.

Fine brushwork should also have the spirit of freehand brushwork.

Wei: At this year's national art exhibition, Shu, an art critic and academic editor of Calligraphy and Painting magazine, said: "The national art exhibition has basically formed a style model, with meticulous brushwork dominating the whole country and freehand brushwork declining obviously." But in fact, most of the meticulous works I saw in the art exhibition were finely polished and described, and only paid attention to the "eating kung fu" works described in the scene structure. How to treat this phenomenon?

Mr. Hu: What he said is also recognized by everyone. Nowadays, freehand brushwork is difficult to have truly satisfactory works, especially freehand brushwork of characters. Today's people are not satisfied with the tradition after the founding of the People's Republic of China, that is, the tradition of Jiang, Xu Beihong, and others, and are not satisfied with drawing nutrition from the traditional ancient pen and ink. Everyone is creating a new language and new forms, and they are all stuck on a wide road, and as a result, they are all stuck on a road. Either engage in deformation and rags; Either freehand brushwork is "made", or it is painted like a print, without real pen and ink charm. Most of the works we see now are in these two situations. The first case often fails to enter the selection scope of art exhibitions, and the second case comes in, but it is not recognized. We are particularly sorry that the works that really draw feelings, gas fields, verve, kung fu, harmony and verve have not been seen.

Meticulous painting can be described deeply, and this kind of kung fu can often impress the judges. However, in this atmosphere, meticulous brushwork will also have some problems of low personality, but it is difficult to create artistic conception. This is the malpractice and common fault of meticulous painting! My white teacher repeatedly warned me in the process of meticulous painting, "Don't paint enough, just frame the progress hall;" Draw until you feel enough. Framed, it must be painted as soon as it progresses! "We have been emphasizing the spirit of freehand brushwork, and its freehand brushwork is not only a matter of the thickness of pen and ink, nor does it mean to draw with freehand brushwork. Its significance lies in spirit, artistic conception, conception of works, expression of artistic conception and so on. This is the problem of meticulous painting, but meticulous painting can occupy so many award-winning positions. On the one hand, it shows the progress of meticulous painting, and everyone is keen on meticulous painting. On the other hand, it does illustrate the weakness of our freehand brushwork.

W: Are you paying special attention to some young meticulous painters now?

H: many. For example, Zhang Jian, a young artist in Shanghai, is my student, but he has formed his own style before. The colors and means he used influenced a large number of people. The color is very foreign, and so is the whole picture. But the taste and artistic conception of his paintings are of high style, so he is my most concern. And Chen Zi from Fujian. She doesn't sketch, but she paints imaginary people, but her deformation is very interesting, the color is beautiful, poetic and new. There is also a relatively young rookie, Sun Zhensheng, who is now a meticulous painter and has studied my techniques before. Like others, there is not much way out, so I asked him to copy murals. He is very savvy and creative, and it is very good to draw a batch of things in the form of murals. I still have Chen Zhi with me. The theme and style of his works have their own feelings and work hard.

Wei: I heard that you like poems of the late Tang Dynasty. Why do you like his poems?

Mr. Hu: My oil painting teacher Liu Tiancheng has a great influence on me. He taught me how to understand sketch correctly, often gave me a cooker, showed me picture books and went to the library to read books. My teacher likes Nantang, so she teaches me and reads to me all day. Moreover, the melancholy and sadness between the lines correspond to my mentality at that time, so my works at that time will also be infected.

Wei: You are an artist, a professor and vice chairman of China Artists Association. Will it affect your creation?

Mr. Hu: I'm busy. I don't have time to draw meticulous paintings. So I have two words: fame is a disaster, and loneliness is a precious wealth. We should all cherish the lonely time in life.

W: What's your next exhibition plan?

Hu: I won't do it for the time being. I'm so tired. I am a natural person and don't want to do anything deliberately. Just let nature take its course.

Wei: Thank you very much for your interview with Zhenyi.com. I wish your exhibition a complete success!

H: thank you.